The Thai Dowry or Sin Sot - How Much is Enough?
December 30, 2007
Question: The concept of dowry in Thailand is really wild! I have read much groaning about this, however I am a realist. I don’t know if I like it or not, but I must smile and deal with it. But, how is the amount settled upon?
Answer:
Touching on the Thai dowry question…it is a bit of a sticky question and although it is a bit of an old fashioned concept (and not really Thai, but imported from the Chinese) it is still expected that some dowry (or sin sot as it is known in Thai) is paid.
A bit of historical perspective…the idea of sin sot came about because of the before mentioned cultural trait of daughters caring for the parents. In a traditional Thai family the daughter lives with her parents and works on their farm until she gets married. Remember that even today
Today the dowry is used mostly as a way of showing how rich the husband is and how well he will be able to take care of his new bride. If you’ve read anything about the idea of “face” in Thai culture you’ll understand that the dowry today is a way for the family to gain face in the community.
That being said, again it is necessary to understand what is necessary and what is too much. Also understand that with the rise of a more middle class Thai culture many parents choose to give the dowry money back to their daughter after the wedding and in fact it is traditional for the parents to give the gold to the daughter (dowry is typically ½ cash and ½ gold).
The amount of dowry is usually negotiated with the family (usually the mother or grandmother) by the grooms’ best friend. Of course that won’t work in your case and the negotiations would be carried out by your Thai girlfriend with input from you of course.
In the provinces the typical dowry is between 50,000 and 100,000 Bt in a Thai-Thai wedding although I know some of Golf’s friends are in the 200,000-300,000 Bt range. Keep in mind that 50-100% of this money is going back to the couple after the wedding.
Also, during the Thai wedding ceremony all of the guests come up to congratulate the couple and they hand them an envelope with cash in it. In the case of our marriage I paid 200,000 for the dowry (1/2 cash ½ gold). We got all of the gold back after the wedding, but gave her parents the money from the guests’ envelopes (~100,000 Bt) and also the 100,000 in cash to help pay for the wedding costs.
Use your common sense and don’t pay more than you can afford and certainly not more than what a yearly salary would be for your new Thai family in the provinces of
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I just had this discussion with my fiancee last night as we parted at the airport. We’ve just been on a holiday together, though we live in different provinces. The issue has been on my mind about a month after I mentioned the potential marriage to my parents. With all the criteria etc (my dad’s a retired high ranked military medic, mum’s respected and perfect home maker, their society praised our familiy highly, I’m 31, B.A. educated & always with highly paid job, own a car, 2 houses (1 being rented and paying for itself mortgage) my mum suggested the appropriate dowry is 1 million for the face thing. My fiancee owns good biz but hasn’t got such amount in his private account. All is biz. Plus he seemed to feel uncomfy about the subject and lots of questions like to whom the money go and why etc. I couldn’t help shedding tears discussing it and one point he jokingly (I think) said he couldn’t afford me (when we talked about his insurance renewal) Said he was surprised to know. It was like the blind leading the blind so we agreed to do some research. At one point I thought I’d have to say yes if he broke it off!
If it wasn’t for my parents I wouldn’t care so much. But in a Thai daughter’s life this is like the most important thing (while a man’s life is to become a monk for a period of time, and my brother went for a full proper 3 months, so he’s done his thing) Most boys these days just do it for 3 days or a week! So yes, we’re very traditional and know what important to our most beloved parents, who raised us well and taught us right from wrong and every other good things we live by.
Now, personally I don’t think 1 million is too much for my price. My mum mentioned she can even withdraw the money from the bank for the ceremony if necessarry. But what type of a daughter would willingly accept that. How would she look at my fiancee if I accept that. But my non-liquid asset is about about 4-5 mill and I’m willing to cash out one house to make this happen but somehow (being raised traditionally) I want to feel I’m worth some understandable (measureable, as in figures) amount and that someone is more than willing to marry and will find a way. Not like, “everything is in the business” or cash flow issue etc, you know?
I think my parents are also concerned that he has a 7 year old daughter (living with her mum and mum’s boyfriend whom mum left him for) This doesn’t make him a super candidate but I do love him and his very very fine daughter. Now you might think, here we go, what other issues there are. But it’s not so much an issue…I think. Though it’s kind of give me hollow feeling in my tummy that I will never come first?
Anyway, my point is, what is the most effective way to make him accept the idea without creating much of arguements as it already has?
He must be doing research and talk to people now also, and lots of web site I’ve come across suggested some 100,000 THB figures. My parents may feel that giving away their daughter to whom has some 100,000 THB is very insecured, but they will surely let me, but I don’t want them to feel worried about my future.
Is this actually the issue I should make with my parents, or my fiancee? I know it’s all about fine tuning now but I dread the negotiation for such a sensitive and complicated issue.
ANy suggestion would be truly appreciated.
I fyou love him very much, you wouldn’t care how much he is giving. Let him give whatever amount he wants. You do not need to know. This is some some kind of business where the price had to be agreed before hand, else thing can get really ugly with the two of your separating just because of a dowry just for your parents “face”
Hi Chutima.
You know, Golf and I have discussed this in some detail over the past few days and we sort of agree with parul’s response. I don’t think it would be right to expect no dowry at all because of the expectations in Thai culture, especially traditional Thai families. However, since your fiancee is farang (I assume this even though you don’t say so) I think some consideration should be placed on his traditions, thoughts and feelings as well.
I can tell you that the idea of dowry or sin sot does not sit well with Europeans, Americans and Australians because it is not part of our traditions and we have no cultural base to compare it too. In the mind of the foreigner to Thailand we all think the same thing: Why should we pay someone to get married simply for a show of ‘face’.
Now, that being said, many of us gladly pay some amount simply because we do love our fiancee’s and we wish to honor their own traditions. Of course there needs to be a compromise here and unless your fiancee is very wealthy BY WESTERN STANDARDS then I think 1 million baht is way too much to expect. Many people in the U.S. don’t make much more than that in an entire year, especially after taxes are paid.
Ultimately it is up to you and he to decide what is acceptable and some compromise will need to be made I am sure. In my own and Golf’s case much of the dowry money was returned to us, however we gave the gift money from the marriage ceremony to her parents. This was negotiated by Golf and agreed upon in advance by both sides and worked quite well for us.
I feel for you as I know how difficult this issue can be and if there is anything else I can do please feel free to let me know. Best of luck to both you and your fiancee Chutima!
Hi Chutima,
I feel your pain. I’m getting married at the end of this month to a wonderful American man. We are having Thai and American ceremony. Bringing up the dowry subject when we got engaged last year wasn’t easy. But I’m glad I did it. I explained to him that it is our tradition, that all Thai men pays for dowry. We are not asking only from Farang. Everyone is treated equally. You know, everyone has a baggage - and dowry is happened to be one of the thing if you want to marry a Thai girl. I actually have alread save up that money for MY OWN dowry since I started working - knowing that most of American would not like the idea.
It turns out that my mom didn’t really want the dowry (and I’m sure that your mom feels the same way.) She said she would except anything and will give the money back to us. My parents are higher up in government positions. I graduated with an M.S. in engineering and have a high-paid position with a fortune-500 company in the U.S. We decided that 1 million baht is an appropriate amount. My best friend with similar background who just got married last year to an American has the same dowry. I don’t think that it is unreasonable. (Of course, both of our parents are giving the money back to us.)
My future husband (FH)’s family didn’t really get the idea of dowry at first. But now, they all are pretty excited about it. We are not rich but my FH and I think that we are doing the right thing. It is important to do things that you won’t regret in the future. May be you should talk to your parents and negotiate some solution - like how much are they going to give back. That way your fiance will feel comfortable about this instead of thinking that his fiance’s family just love him for money.
Congratulation and good luck to both of you.