I first went to Thailand in 1997 and immediately fell in love with the country. Thailand at that time to me was mysterious and exotic, full of potentials and pitfalls.
Fast forward to 2010 and here I am after 13 years and many trips to the LOS sharing, with the help of my 
Thai Dowry or Bride Price
Thai culture expects men to pay a dowry (sin sot in Thai) or bride price prior to the marriage as a symbol of love, respect, appreciation and gratitude to the wife’s parents for raising and caring for her. It is a long standing tradition and is widely accepted in Thailand.
It seems that it developed from the fact that Thailand has no social benefits and children take care of their parents. Traditionally, sons will pay for the upkeep of the parents and the girls will do work for them (house and farm). So, when a daughter leaves her parents they are “compensated” with the dowry since the daughter will now “work” for her husband.
It is also a sign of readiness to support the future wife. In the West we are taught that love is separate from money, but in other cultures money may represent a symbol of love. I know that this is very different from the way that we think of money and love in the West. Part of this connection is due to the way that Thai people value generosity. Generosity is highly valued and it is often hard for Thai people to understand if someone does not want to show generosity.
Of course today many Thai parents are more modern thinking and the dowry is often more important as a visible sign to the community of how successful the new son-in-law is. The concept of “face” comes into play here. I can’t say that I understand this concept completely and will have to say that it is fundamentally about the perception other people have about us and ones importance relative to others.
It is acceptable to “negotiate” the dowry as well. Usually this will be done by a close friend or family member of the groom, however in the case of a foreigner marrying a Thai girl it would be done by the future bride. The amount of the dowry can vary widely and is usually dependent on how successful (and rich) the groom is (or perceived to be). Keep in mind too that many times the parents will return the dowry to the couple immediately after the wedding as a gift.
In my case, my in-laws gave back the gold in the dowry as a gift as well as much of the cash. They kept the money that was received from our guests as gifts to pay for the wedding ceremony. I thought this was extremely fair and generous, especially since it wasn’t expected. Of course each situation is different and while it is definitely more common these days for the return of the dowry as a gift it still isn’t an automatic.
I think the bottom line is if you love your Thai girlfriend then I wouldn’t worry too much about the dowry. If it is something you can afford then it is really no big deal. I mean really, how can you compare money to love? Money you can make more of it anytime, right? But for love…it is so elusive and difficult to find and keep. Ask yourself…can I live without this woman…then ask the same question about the dowry. I think that will put things into perspective.
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great analysis, same this happens in Uganda. we guys pay the pride brice, and it has evolved in the same manner as mentioned here. Its more of face value. Though i haven’t heard of “give backs” or gifts. and the negotiation in our case is a ceremony or introduction as well, since all the close relatives attend.
‘THAI DOWRYor BRIDE PRICE’
i am retired, living on a small pension (which is quite a reasonable monthly income in Thailand) currently living with ‘my wife to be’ in a small house (owned by my lady friend) right next door to the ‘family’ home. I also have a small nest egg, which i would like to keep as a safety valve. My thai lady will be able to retire from her employment soon and we have spoken about marrying.( We have known each other only 1 year), she keeps bringing up the subject of a dowry ‘payment’ to her elderly 88 yrs age, parents. My response to her so far, is as she is no longer in the bloom of youth, both of us long past giving the gift of life to a child, and that as I no longer am gainfully employed and that any cash spent cannot be replaced from income, that my/our need is greater than her parents, who are so retiredand not in best health, that all they are capable of is eating , drinking and sleeping and as they will likely die very soon any dowry i may pay will almost immediately be split up among her family of brothers and sisters, who are all youngish and gainfully employed and well able to replenish their own coffers from income. So i believe the finest gift I can give her parents ,is for them to see their long un married daughter happily married to the man she loves, both of us looking forward to a long unlonely retired life together, hoping not to have to start scrounging off other people at this time in our lives.
I am quite adamant that I will not donate some of my meagre savings to her extended family by way of parental bequests. i would add, they are all lovely family members, open and friendly towards me. and me to them.
I would like to have advice and comments from readers, as I do not want my wife to be, to lose any family face, I hope I sound sensible and not stingey.
mick
Hey Mick,
From a Western perspective you sound very sensible, but from a Thai perspective I think you do indeed sound stingy. There is no doubt that if you marry this Thai lady without a dowry (I assume she has never been married before) much face will be lost all around, it’s just the way it is in rural Thailand.
Here’s a possible way around your dilemma.
The dowry is usually split between cash and gold. So, you can be assured of getting half the dowry back immediately by simply reselling the gold after the wedding. Depending on what happens to the price of gold you may lose a small bit (or could gain), but that half is then a wash for the most part.
Now, for the cash bit. Can you request that the parents give the cash back to you after the wedding? This is becoming more common in Thailand, especially in the larger cities as the standard of living increases. Or, if you are the one paying for the wedding you could request that the parents pay for part of the wedding…and they pay from the dowry cash.
One other thing you should keep in mind is that at Thai weddings the guests give cash as gifts almost exclusively, so there is a very good chance that whatever dowry you give will be replaced by the gifts. I know that this was the case when I got married.
I would suggest that you make at least some gesture to provide a dowry if you are concerned about loss of face. It’s a big deal in Thailand and even a small amount is better than nothing.
i have read your story with interest, like you i currently have a thai girl freind, and i would like to take her as my wife at some point in the future, i hear so many different stories of what can or might happen, and i feel lost and confused by it all, i am 56 she is 34 ( with 2 boys ) that i adore one 10 and one 11, they treat me like a dad, i guess because they have never known their real dad, he left when they were just babies, my girl freinds parents are wonderfull, and they have always greeted me with welcome and affection, i am actualy only 3 years younger than her dad and i am 4 years older than her mother, i guess i will have to take the plunge so to speak, and hope everything works out for me as seems to have done for you. i look forward to receiving any advice you may care to send.
I think paying a dowry, as is the custom, is best paid with generous intentions and not avoided. Best be prepared to pay it as this will be a good start to the marriage, and most probably returned in years to come, in the form of return generosity, help and general family inclusion and respect.
When you say you give 1/2 the dowry as cash and 1/2 as gold, what form does the gold take? Are we talking about gold jewelry, gold ingots, or what?
Great web site!!
to Mike B
like in most cases of what you will find on the net … its mainly the bad story’s people write about ..winging and complainig about their loss
but if you look long and hard
like the above you will find good story’s with happy endings
Im happely married to a nice caring girl shes 30 im 38
who have a wonderful family they are not ritch nor poor
they are from a small village 4 hours north of BKK
for our wedding it was pre arranged that my mum in-law would give back the cash..
well over 500.000 bht cash
as it more offen than not is now a symbolic gesture with traditional ties
that makes the both the family and you look good
the 9 bar of gold and the $7000 aud diamond wedding ring i bourght was alsow added as part of the dowry for my wife so in realety it was near 1 mill bht
we did pay for the wedding ourselves on top of that
in realety what is the cost of a thai wedding including dowry compaired
to a wedding in a the western world
where it offen cost in exess of $ 30.000 AUD for catering the wedding
I currently live in America and my fiance just passed the fiance visa to come to america. She wants us to have an engagement ceremony in isaan and give money to her mom before she leaves Thailand with me. How much to give is enough? is the money given applied toward the sin sod which we would also do a wedding ceremony in her village after about a year?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks for taking the time to comment at Thailand Musings. I really appreciate that.
First off, congrats on your fiancée getting her visa to come to the U.S. I know this can be a long and nerve racking procedure and it’s not guaranteed that the visa is approved. I still remember how excited both Golf and I were when her visa was approved.
Yes, the engagement ceremony is a very common thing in Thailand and the money she is asking for is the sin sod or dowry money. So, if you pay it during the engagement ceremony there is no need to pay again at the wedding. In many cases we associate the sin sod with the wedding ceremony because both the engagement and wedding ceremonies are held at the same time. This is not accurate as the sin sod is actually a part of the engagement ceremony. So, what your fiancée is asking for makes sense. Just remember that the sin sod is only paid once. Also keep in mind that if the engagement is broken off the sin sod is supposed to be returned to you. Finally, the sin sod is often returned to the bride (at least the gold part is – sin sod should be ½ cash and ½ gold) after the wedding ceremony and in some cases the cash is used to pay for the wedding ceremony itself. I think this last came about so that larger sin sod’s are given thus showing more prosperity and gaining more face.
Now on to the more complicated part…how much is enough? I honestly don’t have enough information to say how much is enough, but I can tell you that a typical amount for a farming family would be from 30,000 to 100,000 baht. There are a lot of considerations with sin sod though, mostly revolving around the social status of the bride and also to a lesser extent the groom. Since you are American the amount automatically goes up, but by how much can be negotiated with your future mother-in-law by your fiancée. It should not be that substantial of a rise though (unless of course you are the movie star Matthew Perry ). If your in-laws hold any status in the village then the amount would also be higher. By status I mean father a high ranking police or government official, highly educated, businessman… I think you get it.
You’ll want to discuss with your fiancée how much she feels is enough, how much should be in gold, will she be getting the gold back after the wedding (and will you then sell the gold) and where the money for the wedding ceremony will come from.
Hopefully that was some help to you and will serve to start a discussion between you, your fiancée and your prospective in-laws. If there is anything else I can do to help please don’t hesitate to ask.
Hey Steve:
Greetings from Germany.
The Thai Dowry payment is a very interesting entity and
I am sure that there are those men that have potential
wives, that are at a loss of what is the right thing to do.
Therefore, because, yourself , in the past have shared
transparency in your personal life with Golf, why don’t
you address this issue as it pertained to you, walking
your audience through the procedure, step-by-step?
in addition, a step-by-step editorial of Visa procurement, as
it applied to you, would be highly enlightening.
Hey Steve:
Greetings from Gemany.
Reflecting upon the word “DOWRY,” I perused my American Dictionary to find
that this word means: “THE PROPERTY THAT A WOMAN BRINGS TO HER
HUSBAND AT MARRIAGE.” How does the Thai Dictionary define DOWRY?
Just curious. There have been issues in my various careers, that misreading
the intent, has had dire consequences.
Dennis
The dowry must be an even number, or only the gold given?
I’m having this discussion with my (probably) future wife and told her I don’t have on my CC account more then 500000 baht, therefore I can’t afford a dowry of 400000 and gold, unless I go to my country and empty some economy deposits (well, this is not going to happen ’cause Romania is kin of far and the plain ticket+expenses would reach probably 2000$, adding them to the ceremony expenses; these would be 2000$ I’ll lose)
So, anyway, I’ll talk to her mother soon and discuss about this, I was wondering that maybe it could be 300000+gold, not only 400000 or 200000 – I prefer 200000 but probably her mother won’t agree
Hello
I am a 29 year old ‘farang’ who has found my true love and want to marry her by end of next year…She is 28 years old, lives abroad, has a university degree, comes from Bangkok and works in the airline industry…one thing that is making me worried is the dowry issue….
She is asking for Bht 4,000,000 but then she said that her mother has offered to return half of the amount to me at the wedding….can someone pls tell me if this amount sounds ‘normal’?!? Can this amount be negotiated?
If i do agree on paying that amount, what does the bride’s family pay/ contribute towards the wedding??
Thanks
Unless your fiancee is a Thai model with a masters degree, her family is upper middle class living in Bangkok and she is a virgin that figure is way too high in my opinion. Normal amounts typically range from 100,000 to 1,000,000 baht which is partially or totally returned to the couple after the wedding.
Yes, sin sot amounts are open to negotiation. This is normally done by the grooms best friend or a family member, however in your case it would need to be done by your fiancee.
The bride’s family pays all the costs for the wedding, however this is often taken out of the sin sot payment so in essence you are paying for your own wedding.
I suppose it’s possible your fiancees family believes a 2,000,000 baht wedding is necessary given their status and that’s where the 4mil figure came from?